Religious, Human Nature, etc. Discussion

[Itena]

This thread will be discussing everyone's opinions on Religion, World Peace, Human Nature, God, etc. If you are uncomfortable talking about such issues and/or get easily offended, you have no obligation to read or post in this topic.

What's more, this is not a topic to convert or convince people; please respect everyone's opinion.

Alright, let's start with God(s).

[Felypsa]

I believe in a divine, higher being, but He (or She?) might not strictly be a Christian God, a Muslim God, a Jewish God, etc. I believe that human faith gives this divinity life, and that he/she is everywhere at once because of that faith. Because I was raised Christian, I tend to visualize this deity as being similar to that Christian God, but that's just my particular focus. I believe that God is whoever anyone makes him/her to be -- the faith thing, see. I know that I can pray when I need to, and that it usually makes me feel better. If there is a God, then, I believe that he or she is totally tolerant and has a great sense of humor. =) (Though that might just be me hoping that God isn't offended by my sense of humor or else I'm going to hell, lol.) He understands that humans are what they are. But again, that's just my particular slant. Really, like I said before, God is whoever or whatever anyone makes him/her to be. (Geez that sentence was ridiculously PC, lol.)

That is my opinion, thank you, out. -runs away to finish reading for class-

[blitzkreig]

Mmm, I do believe in the Divine, and in spirituality. I know that there had to be some kind of force, before light and dark and before everything, to kick it all off. I don't believe this is a nessesarily concious force, but it exsists within us all, and in every aspect of life and death.

This is part of the reason why I have chosen no religion for myself. I follow my own path. And yes, sometimes I do seek the guidance of this entity I'll just call "God" as many call It. But I feel I do not need to give to a church or a cinagog or a temple to do so. Because I do not think this "God" needs worship. Why would an entity that was everything, The Alpha and the Omega, need to be worshipped to be "Happy" with us.

I believe in everyone's right to choose a path of their own and respect in those who respect me and my beliefs in return. So ending it all I will say I am strictly Spiritual..not Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddist etc etc. :3

oh also, I would like to add that I think WE as a human race, decide where we go in the end of things.

[Itena]

I believe God is the All-Knowing, the All-Omnipotent, The Greatest Mystery. He is capable of doing anything, beyond even our wildest upon wildest imaginations. God is beyond any comparison to human form or gender. the only reason I refer to God as "He" is because of the need for a pronoun. (Random Fact: There is no other grammatically correct way to refer to God other than "He" in Arabic.)

According to Bahá'í teachings(I am a part of the "Bahá'i Faith", I won't be surprised if you haven't heard of it), God is so far beyond His creation that, throughout all eternity, human beings will never be able to formulate any clear image of Him or attain to anything but the most remote appreciation of His superior nature. Even if we say that God is the All-Powerful, the All-Loving, the Infinitely Just, such terms are derived from a very limited human experience of power, love, or justice.

Thus, for human beings, the knowledge of God means the knowledge of the attributes and qualities of God, not a direct knowledge of His essence. But how are we to attain the knowledge of the attributes of God? Bahá'u'lláh(the Prophet, or "Manifestation of God" for the Báha'i Faith) wrote that everything in creation is God's handiwork and therefore reflects something of His attributes. For example, even in the intimate structure of a rock or a crystal can be seen the order of God's creation. However, the more refined the object, the more completely is it capable of reflecting God's attributes. Since the Messenger/Prophet of God or Manifestation of God is the highest form of creation known to us, the Manifestation affords the most complete knowledge of God available to us. Some examples of a Manifestation of God would be people such as Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Moses, Abraham, Buddha, Bahá'u'lláh, etc.

Of course, only those who live during the time of a Manifestation have the opportunity of observing Him directly. It is for this reason, Bahá'u'lláh explained, that the essential connection between the individual and God is maintained through the writings and words of each Manifestation. For Bahá'ís, the word of the Manifestation is the Word of God, and it is to this Word that the individual can turn in his or her daily life in order to grow closer to God and to acquire a deeper knowledge of Him. The written Word of God is the instrument that creates a consciousness of God's presence in one's daily life:

"Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth.... He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God." - Bahá'u'lláh

It is for this reason that the discipline of daily prayer, meditation, and study of holy writings constitutes an important part of the individual spiritual practice of Bahá'ís. We feel that this discipline is one of the most important ways of growing closer to our Creator.

[blitzkreig]

I dont think there is an absolute need for a pronoun. I will just refer to this entity as "God" because all people seem most comfortable with that. Not he nor she and I'll have to say that It would be the incorrect word as well, persay.

Of course "God" is far beyond we as humans. But I also believe that this entity we call "God" is also a part of every molecule and every atom that is our world, our universe and our lives. Which is why I shy away from refering to "God" as a being. Personally I think that this thing we call "God" is an unconcious but all powerful force exsisting in daily life. This force cannot judge, and is far far beyond our very plain of exsistance, but we feel it everywhere.

I'm very strongly scientific as well though. I see the physical AND the spiritual and read between the lines for myself. It helps with a kind of balance in my life, not allowing me to be sucked up into a dead zone on either side of the debate. I'm in my own peacefully content spot right in the middle. :3

[Itena]

Ah, I see. That's an interesting way of thinking. ^^

If we go to whether He is a conscious being or not, then I have to say that I believe that God is indeed a conscious being. I believe God created us because He loved us, and for us to worship Him. Not so that He'll be happy, but rather so that we are happy. For we are happy whenever we worship God, though this is something that not all people are aware of. The happiest thing for us is to become closer to God.

Which leads to another discussion, "Life's Purpose"

Many people live their lives without ever reflecting on life itself or its meaning for them. Their lives may be full of activities. They may marry, have children, run a business, or become scientists or musicians, without ever obtaining any degree of understanding of why they do these things. Their lives have no overall purpose to give meaning to separate events, and they may have no clear idea of their own nature or identity, of who they really are.

I believe that only true religion can give purpose to human existence. If there were no Creator, if humans were simply chance products of a thermodynamic system, as many in the world today assert, there would be no purpose in life. Each individual human being would represent the temporary material existence of a conscious animal trying to move through his or her brief life with as much pleasure and as little pain and suffering as possible.

It is only in relation to the Creator, and the purpose which that Creator has fixed for His creatures, that human existence has any meaning. Bahá'u'lláh, the Manifestation of God and founder of the Baha'i Faith, described God's purpose for man in the following way:

"The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness."

For me, life is seen as an eternal process of joyous spiritual discovery and growth: in the beginning stages of earthly life, the individual undergoes a period of training and education which, if it is successful, gives him or her the basic intellectual and spiritual tools necessary for continued growth. When individuals attain physical maturity in adulthood, they become responsible for their further progress, which now depends entirely on the efforts they themselves make. Through the daily struggles of material existence, people gradually deepen their understanding of the spiritual principles underlying reality, and this understanding enables them to relate more effectively to themselves, to others, and to God. After physical death, the individual continues to grow and develop in the spiritual world, which is greater than the physical world, just as the physical world is greater than the world we inhabit while in our mother's womb.

[blitzkreig]

You have a beautiful way of thinking Itena. But there is one little thing I have to...well, not disagree with, but you know. x3

I cannot entirely say that I agree with the thing about true religion. Perhaps you just mean it as a form of "True Spirituality with yourself and with 'God' " kind of way. Cause it goes back for me to a saying of that 'If you do not know God, and you do not have a religion, then you cannot find a true purpose or meaning in life. I know that's not what you're trying to say Itena, allow me to elaborate.

Once someone asked me if I went to church. When I told them I didn't and didn't feel I needed to they asked me, then what is your purpose in life? My answer would have been, to be a good person, to treat the earth as it should, to grow and develope and help myself and others. But this person cut me off, and told me - not suggested, or implied - they flat out told me that if I did not have "God" in my life, and did not strive to please him then I had no purpose.

That blew me away. I was angry and frustrated. I myself think that I do not need to be a devout Christian, or Jew, or Baha'i to be in touch with the forces of life. That's why it made me angry. Religious force-feeders can sometimes suck, you have to admitt. I know its a part of some peoples religions to convert others, but frankly I find that ignorant.

=D *Snuggs Itena*

[Mama Z]

Omg...yer all wrong..becaue Im the real slim shaddy just the real slim shady all you other slim shaddys are just immitating..

[blitzkreig]

I just LoL'd so hard I almost pee'd.

[Mama Z]

Truthfully and seriously..you cant debate religon. Even theologists within the same religon have debates. Debating religon is like trying to draw a perfect circle with a pen and paper. No matter how much you try you can never make it.

[blitzkreig]

Unless you use a compass.

yeah, I agree Z. I find it a lot of wasted breath. Its not like I or anyone else is gunna change the other's mind.

[Itena]

Ah, The religion thing. This part is a bit hard to explain, give me a minute to organize my thoughts...

I guess I should start by explaining what my Faith thinks that religion is. Religion is what God gives to humanity to move it forward, and to teach of his own existence, as well as to teach us of how we must act, what our purpose is, etc. Religion is God's teachings to us. As God cannot lower himself to the human, he sends down the Manifestations of God. You can describe them as the "Pens of God". These "Pens" give God's message to humanity, and from that a religion organisation is born from the followers, or the believers of this message(I might of just explained it as if the religious groups are an accident, but do not misunderstand, these religious organizations are intentional).

But this is not just random and spontaneous, these religions. The Bahá'i Faith believes in a "Progressive Nature of Religion", or "Progressive Revelation"

The Bahá'i Faith believes that religion is evolutionary, and that each Manifestation of God brings a larger measure of "religion" to Mankind than last one. The differences in the message is because of the difference in humanity's capacity to comprehend. These differences is needed, otherwise mankind wouldn't be able to understand. But while each message is different in the other in their social aspects, they always have the same basic spiritual truths, which is basically things such as how to treat others, virtues, etc. Of course, over time, with humanity's capacity growing, these spiritual truths are elaborated and put into more detail each time(um, I'm not too sure of the wording right there ).

You could think of it as opening a door. The first Manifestation opens it a little bit, the next a little bit more, and so forth.

I could also talk about the "cycles", but that would take a few more paragraphs ^^; If you want to learn about those, wikipedia has an article for the bahai view on progressive revelation, and it also elaborates on the cycles. It's accurate, so....

So for the "true religion", it's basically about the message of God, not the organizations.

As for those people who try to "convert" other people, The Bahá'i Faith strongly encourages something called Independent Investigation of the Truth. Basically, this emphasizes the fundamental obligation of human beings to acquire knowledge with their "own eyes and not through the eyes of others." For instance, if you hear a rumor, you're not just supposed to believe it; you should go and find out whether that's true or not.

If someone want to be a Bahá'i, we'd encourage them to research both this Faith and other religions first, as well as think very carefully before they join.

Basically, I totally agree that people shouldn't force others to join things. Of course, this may or may not be what you were trying to say. If only we could read each others minds!

*reads* Wow, I wrote down a lot... This is what happens I guess ^^; That took longer than I expected... I might not have even stayed to the point, so forgive me...

[Mama Z]

One thing that must be understood: Religon is a manifestation of a mans mind. If God himself created a religon there would only be one universal religon. But there isnt, therefore Religon doesnt come from God. What coems from God is faith.

[Itena]

I believe I had already explained that. A way to think about it is like grades in school(grade 1, 2, 3, etc). If you told everything all in one go, it wouldn't work. It all has to be gradualy explained. A grade one student will not understand university classes.

[blitzkreig]

Well, its nothing really about explainin' Itena. What Z said is pretty true. "God" never came down in his big barritone voice and said, "Worship me." Humans developed that idea. o.o